Curse

romO · Oct 01, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

The ranger kindle spike was not nerfed at all. my guild and i (Prav) were holding hall last night when pRp came in and faced us 1v1. they were running the exact same 4 kindle spike rangers 1 curse mesmer build that they always run. we thought they wouldnt do as much damage as quickly, so we didnt set up the counter to the build. however, they started spiking us down just as quickly as before the patch. ranger spikes were not nerfed at all. once we set up the counter, we easily beat them and hell for a little bit longer, but it was still distressing to see that it was not nerfed one bit. frog, i know you closed the last thread because you thought that this issue was resolved, but i can tell you from experience that ranger spike is in no way a thing of the past. how annoying.

dargon · Oct 01, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Wanna cry just a little bit louder? Like you said you easily beat them, I can understand a little moaning if you hadn't, but you did. Now if there wasn't a 1.25 second pause between each shot from a single individual I can understand the crying but there's a pause now which gives you all the time you need as you've proven.

Dont Look At My · Oct 01, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

yes. As they nerfed the spamming of it. You cannot want them to nerf the damage, because preparations are essential for rangers. So they just stopped the from spamming. What you want more?

Zeru · Oct 01, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Kindle doesn't go through aegis/guardian

Shield of Deflection is spammable

You can't do dual->punishing->savage in 1 second, only two of them.

It's really not a problem to stop. pRps build was always mediocre b/c it couldn't kill through aegis and fell to pieces once you stopped their mes/necro. Even a good setup is going to have a lot weaker results now because you simply cannot punch through their protective enchants and if you dedicate a fast cast mesmer to take those down that guy becomes the weakpoint of the build and if he gets shutdown or killed they can't do anything.

Rey Lentless · Oct 01, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

You don't want ranger damage to be an option at all? What are you talking about?

They fixed everything broken about it. But it can still be effective. Mission accomplished.

Orochim4ru · Oct 02, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I was with romo on this run, and had pRp had help from another team, it would have ended in a very ugly way.

Nerfing diversion was NOT a good move, seeing as its the only way to whittle down the available amount of dualshots. On the upside, the team we fought had perfect timing on their spikes (i.e. instant damage), but failed to take us down.

MS's version of ranger spike, however, was played much more intelligently, if you ask me. 15 minute battles betweek spiking teams are incredibly rare.

chudak · Oct 02, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

The problem with ranger spike as I remember was that interupts could be chained and do more dps then damage dealing skills. I never realized that the ranger spike itself was a problem?

I play a ranger (and also a mesmer and a warriorif needed) and I never complained about nerfing the interupts so they can't be spammed since that was imbalanced. I never complained about spirit nerf although I think it could be done in a better manner but its over now.

On the other hand this topic is just stupid. :/

chudak · Oct 02, 2005, 07:40 AM // 07:40

And the fact that you can't chain interupts and make more dps while interupting in that way IS a nerf. The fact you still can spike with a ranger has nothing to do with it.

Orochim4ru · Oct 02, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Uh, the dualshot-> punishing shot spike is enough to kill you with 4 rangers. you don't need savage shot/distracting shot. More importantly, the real nerf that people wanted isn't a nerf: kindle hits if you block or evade the arrow, which is totally retarded. If you take 12 arrows (2 dual + 1 punishing x4 rangers) and each arrow does 17 damage, you've just taken 204 damage, which is, just under half your health.

This, however, is assuming that you do not get hit by a single arrow.

Now, lets assume half of the arrows hit. lets say 4 dual arrows, and 2 punishings. From experience, i know that dual arrows deal in the environs of 40 damage, and punishings deal around 60. (they run 14 marks, 10% armor pen horn bows and favorable)

lets add this up. 204 + 40x4 + 55x2 = 484. = dead.

dead during aegis against nerfed skills? looks like the nerfed them wrong.

Now, if you want to get cute about this, realize that EVERY player on their team that is offensive can interupt the ghostly, and carries hex breaker.

No shadow of fear/blurred vision?
No capping until every person on their team is dead?
No ability to defend against spikes besides 2 skills which can be stopped easily by the interupts?

Thought so.

I played against this build the day MS started running it with their leader in our group. I've held HoH with Ranger spike as the caller. Our guildy is a permanent part of pRp's spike team. I'm the person running the counter to it in prav's groups. Given that, i think i know what's going on.

Unless you bring a very VERY narrow subset of skills you cannot stop ranger spike, so when romo says its not dead, people should listen up and bring their counters, because kindle spike is still an incredibly viable build.

Banebow · Oct 02, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

the real nerf that people wanted isn't a nerf: kindle hits if you block or evade the arrow, which is totally retarded

Last I checked, it does not any more. Might want to rework your numbers with that in mind. Then again, I am not a huge kindle user, so I could be wrong about that.

Bro|Cronos · Oct 02, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Uh, the dualshot-> punishing shot spike is enough to kill you with 4 rangers. you don't need savage shot/distracting shot.

...

dead during aegis against nerfed skills? looks like the nerfed them wrong.

...

Unless you bring a very VERY narrow subset of skills you cannot stop ranger spike, so when romo says its not dead, people should listen up and bring their counters, because kindle spike is still an incredibly viable build.

I agree! I played against them in hoh last night too (I´m from europe).

Fluxx · Oct 02, 2005, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Guys , when I try to make a forum it gives me a error and closes explorer , so Ill post my question here .

WHATS THE USE OF quick shot ?

Ill write how it would work in a battle

Second 1 - I use quick shot - 1 sec casting time so I can shoot next second
Second 2 - I shoot

- it takes 2 seconds to shoot with the quick shot , so whats the use of it ? I can shoot every 2 seconds with short bow without quick shot ..

it would only be good when using a bow that has shoot rate higher than 2 sec ..

maybe it could be also good like this

second 1 - quick shot , next sec I shoot
second 2 - shoot
second 3 - shoot and cast quick shot , is that even possible to shoot and cast at the same time ?

Maybe im making some mistake .. like would this work ?

second 1 - cast quick shot and shoot , would the quick shot effect the shot I would cast at the same time ? I mean its 1 sec cast time so it shouldnt ..

can I cast and shoot at the same time ? Than it could be some use I guess ..

Patrograd · Oct 02, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Unless you bring a very VERY narrow subset of skills you cannot stop ranger spike, so when romo says its not dead, people should listen up and bring their counters, because kindle spike is still an incredibly viable build.

This is very true.

All the update has done is to take away the mindless spamming of skills by unskilled players for the purposes of farming fame in the lower levels of the tombs.

Anyone that knew how to really work kindle spike is wondering what the fuss is about, as their build is unaffected, in the same way that anyone who knew how to really run smite or IWAY is wondering what all the fuss about.

All of these tactics are still viable when run by skilled players who understand the mechanics and limitations of their builds and work together as a team in a proper co-ordinated manner and bring the counters to the various tactics out there.

So yes, kindle spike still exists, smite still exists, IWAY still exists, its just that you cant use them now without knowing how to, which is a good thing, no?

Da Cebuano · Oct 02, 2005, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Damn, why do people always want nerfs? why not take the alternate route and make others just as powerful? some skills aren't even broken but when used correctly is deadly, then people cry nerf cause they can't use it as well.

NekoZ · Oct 02, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I'm not calling for a nerf or anything, jus stating the fact that becoming a ranger interrupter has become also incredibly easier due to the new addition where you can see how long the person is taking to cast.

Orochim4ru · Oct 02, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

No one's calling for a nerf: We're saying bring your counters.

smurfhunter · Oct 02, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

i think the only difference between post update spiking and pre update spiking is that before they would go dual/debl + punishing + savage etc, now they use QS because of the little 'aftercasts' put in.

that stuff is old news... what really pisses me off are the trap builds.

Tara Blitzwind · Oct 03, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

smite still exists,

Haven't encountered a single smite build since the nerf.

Nicolas Elensar · Oct 03, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

I'm not calling for a nerf or anything, jus stating the fact that becoming a ranger interrupter has become also incredibly easier due to the new addition where you can see how long the person is taking to cast.

What?

It doesn't makes it easier at all, I mean people already know every spell casting time.. Hell you don't need to watch the bar to know when to distract earthquake or a resurection signet and watching the casting time on say.. Orison or healing touch doesn't help at all.. It still takes skills or in most cases luck.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Oct 03, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Oh noes another nerf debate, close the thread quick!